Saturday, October 4, 2008

A Strange Encounter

It seems there is a mysterious underground plot being played out amongst the players in the anti-KK community. An anonymous poster has attacked, without provocation, seemingly one of their own.

My mind works in steps, so let me step through this.

First consider NancyElle – the victim. She is an unlikely victim by all appearances. She is not controversial. An anti-KK personality, for sure, but not an ardent anti-KK blogger. Not a prolific poster. I have to confess that I don’t read her blog routinely. I really don’t read any blogs routinely. And I haven’t been to hers for some time until this commotion. Her blog centers around good food and her love of music – particularly that of Jackson Browne. Nothing there to raise an eyebrow. So why was she attacked? Supposedly because she used an affiliate link to an internet rebate program website. Honestly, I’ve never seen her comment one way or another on making a few pennies from an affiliate link, so would not even begin to know enough to call her a hypocrite for doing so. But come on. Does this make any sense to anyone?

No, I didn’t think so. But, I will come back to the question of motive later on. For now, let’s move on to the suspect.

Our dear friend Anonymous has struck again. Brings to mind that character known to every parent. You know – I Don’t Know. Or maybe you are more familiar with his cousin, Not Me. Let’s not confuse Anonymous with screennames. After all, most of us DO post anonymously as in we don’t use our real names on the internet. We do that for a wide variety of reasons. No, Anonymous is more sinister than that. This person wants to make comments that can be affixed to any number of people. Generally it is because they don’t want to accept the responsibility for their words. Or they want to cast a shadow over others.

In this instance, for reasons known only to NancyElle and a handful of others (not the larger anti-KK community, though) the focus seems to be fixed on one person. Hints are being dropped. Is it MissMerize, aka AvenueGirl? She is the one associated with cigarettes and martinis, after all. She insists it isn’t her. And the more her denials are met with silence, the more impassioned her denials become. Interestingly enough, NancyElle has not cleared MissM. She HAS cleared Heidi, though. This is after all of the support popped up for MissM and Heidi was fingered as a likely suspect. So why, Nancy, if you DO know who is behind this have you NOT cleared MissM? I’m not aware of any conflicts that MissM has had with ANY of the anti-KK community, let alone Nancy. Of course, she could have and it could have sailed right passed me.

Now, if NancyElle hasn’t had any mix-ups with anyone, why would she be targeted? Thinking out loud here … how about to cast dispersions onto another party? Someone who, if they were to pick on someone as likable and innocent as Nancy would raise the ire of just about everyone. Someone that others might have a grudge against. Someone that others could claim makes a habit of this sort of thing. Hmm. A real target, if you will. If we accept that premise, what clues do we have to that person's identity?

The first obvious target is MissM. Who would be upset with her? Well, Heidi Diaz is the obvious one. The past few days MissM has turned her attention full focus on the lying liar who lies. She for sure would have a real reason for wanting to discredit her as well as embroil her into an unrelated controversy. But NancyElle has very deliberately cleared Heidi Diaz. Scratch MissM off the list.

Other clues have been dropped for us. Let’s look at the comments that followed Nancy’s announcement that she was done. The first few were confused condolences. One poster questioned just how Nancy knew who the poster was, as implied on her blog, when the post was made anonymously. That is a fair question certainly. Anyone who is going to attack that way and use the moniker Anonymous would certainly know how to use a proxy to hide their IP thus making their identity truly unknown. All of the bloggers understand stat counters and trackers. I’ve yet to see an answer to that very important question, even though it has been presented twice now.

Then we have an unsolicited denial with a note that it is understandable why someone would be upset with the whole affiliate link thing.

MissM enters in and declares her innocence. She actually connects the dots to herself, realizing that she is being painted as the villain. Lots of folks come to her defense, but not NancyElle.

One poster opines that NancyElle is a likely choice if Anonymous is Heidi. That argument could also explain why NancyElle was used if it is NOT Heidi, but I’ll get around to that in a bit.

Now things start to get interesting. A LCF regular, Mayberryfan, posts making it very clear that she believes she knows who the real suspect is. And then – who is this? Morgan? Hi, Morgan. Apparently you, too, believe you know who did this. And Vox. And Jo – who is the only one of those “in the know” to state clearly to MissM that they KNOW it isn’t her. Mayberryfan drops a hint that the real anonymous is intentionally setting MissM up.

What do all of these people have in common? Well, besides being involved, side by side with the rest of us in the anti-KK fight. They all have had a run in with another blogger – YustYucky. And in some cases, at least two other bloggers.

Do we have motive? I’m not saying one way or another. Just following the clues. But I will say this, and I want to say it just as clearly as I can.

Folks need to be very careful about charges being flung around. The KK Scam has educated a whole lot of people to the ways of the Internet. If you are wrong, you will rue the day. The fact that you have already cast aspersions on the character of MissMerize, aka AvenueGirl will be cause for a lot of distress for you. Be very careful which pile you step in next.


mariasol said...

Great post. Just a correction: MB didn't "make it clear that she believes" she knows who this is. She stated "Those of us who have been victims of this same person Miss can tell you she won't back down." Of course, MB didn't explain HOW she knows.
Really, why would Yucky care about an affiliate link? She has been busy the last week chasing down nutritionists to try to stop the insanity in the Zero Carb crowd where they think it's OK for pregnant women to eat beef and nothing else than beef.
Now, someone else adopting the name "Ogg" is a much more likely scenario.

And when it comes to IP's, you and I both know how hard it is to pinpoint them on blogger. Yes, statcounter will give you the IP's of visitors, but not for a particular comment. I have no idea how NancyElle have positively identified this person (persons?) as being MissM and/or Yucky.

Prudentia said...

Thank you for the correction, Mariasol.

Yes, it is very difficult to connect IPs to posts. If, however, she has received a ton of them, as she said, it might become more obvious. Since she is not willing to publish the posts nor reveal just what makes her so positive she knows the identity of the poster all anyone else can do is follow the clues that ARE in public view.

Kat said...

wow, another Miss Marple mystery...

avenuegirl said...

I wish she would post her evidence. I feel like I'm fighting a ghost. At the same time I do respect Nancy, and out of concern for her I have not contacted directly, other than commenting on her blog and offering publicly to give her what ever I can.

I have to put myself in her shoes. What would I do if I were Nancy and was led to believe what she believes? Would I trust someone I don't even know who proclaims their innocence?

She is doing what she must to protect herself.

I think if we come to the bottom of this, the truth, it will reveal more than some are looking for. We may actually solve many problems by finding out who is really behind this.

For obvious reasons, I need to be excluded from aiding this search. My only role can be to provide anything asked of me.

The best thing I can do is go back to doing what I was doing which was focusing all my efforts on Heidi. I hate to see time wasted on this distraction - but will it really be time wasted if things are found out that make us stronger?

I have gone through a million emotions and it has taken an enormous amount of effort to remain calm and step aside to look at the situation for what it is.

If a sleuth was to go through every one of my blog posts for the past year and come to the conclusion that I am a person who is against any one making money online for honest reputable companies then I have done something very wrong on my blog and it is not what I want it to portray. If anyone can conclude after reading my blog that I am against someone making money off the Kimkins scandal by selling other things to those involved then my blog is not saying what I want it to be saying.

I have encouraged many on occasion in LCF to write their stories and sell their ebooks. I encouraged Tippy on my blog to keep blogging as she can make money blogging.

If you are someone who told me you don't want to make money and next week you changed your mind and put a link up I would PRAISE you for it. It is wise IMO to get credit for your work, promote what you think is good, and get paid for it if you can.

There are no hidden agendas from me. Read the blog, don't click or buy a thing. The evidence is there of who I am and what I will and will not allow. It was written long before this mess.

God speed to those who investigate this thoroughly and find the truth.

Prudentia said...

Good for you, AvenueGirl! Those of us that know you know this is not the type of thing you do and know that your word is good. You are wise to return to the tasks you were involved in prior to this detour. There is ultimately only one person who benefits by you being embroiled in controversy, and that is the Queen of Scams herself, Heidi Diaz. Whether this is her direct hand or that of someone acting on her behest, the attempted end result is the same.

I also hope that NancyElle, who wouldn't hurt a fly, realizes that she is being used to further an agenda. One that will eventually come to light. People get arrogant and end up showing too much of their hand, resulting in their own undoing. It will happen this time as well.

In the meantime, you GO girl!

Nancy Ellyn said...

I just wanted you to know that I have cleared AvenueGirl's name on FWK. I was led down the wrong path, I fear. I hope you all will forgive me. I wanted to post on AG blog, but I couldn't figure out how. I am now so confused about all of this, and it has taken so much energy. Again, I am sorry.

Prudentia said...

nancy, there was never any doubt that is what was happening to you. Please let those that can help you get to the bottom of this. Believe it or not, this may really matter.

Nancy Ellyn said...

I want you all to know that I didn't mean to hurt anyone. I didn't do this for attention, at all.

I wish I didn't react like I did.

If I could take it all back, I would have just ignored everything, but my feelings were hurt.
I've just been a friend to folks, you know?

That Kimkins affiliate reference sort of set me off. I have seen other sorts of divisions among the ranks that bothered me, and it just culminated in a rant.

I don't know where to post or what to do, because I know people are hating on me, now. I probably deserve it, because I put MissMerize in the position of being a suspect.

I feel safe writing this here, for some reason. I don't feel like I am under attack or questioned.

There are so many crazy multiple id's of people, and people were sending ME cryptic messages, that I think I was being used. I was looking at IP addys and time stamps, comparing them to the anonymous messages, and trying to put it all together and it backfired.
These anonymous messages, one by one were leading me to the wrong person. Before I even posted about anything.

These idividuals that sent me messages probably never even planned that.

Or maybe they did? I still don't know why I was the one who was targeted for this. What was the point?

Was it someone who hated ME and they were trying to divert attention away from that concept onto another concept?

The messages were way more frequent after I posted to my blog. I even posted a couple of them on my blog.

I still think harassing me was the original intention ( a hateful folly), but after I brought this out in the open, then someone was trying to do damage control, or something?

Maybe the fervent messages I got were intended to divert MY attention. I just don't know. Someone was clearly worried when I took this thing to the blogs, and wanted me to think MissM was the culprit. Could HD have someone, disguised as a duck, a trusted duck, messing around with us all?

I don't know.

I know that there is someone visiting my blog now under a very heavy anonymizer program, and that kind of made me laugh.

I never meant to harm the innocent. Never, never. My heart is heavy and I hope AvenueGirl and anyone else who felt I was being cryptic and unfair sees this and forgives me.

Prudentia, I hope you don't mind that I posted this here. I don't know where else I can say this, to just the truly dedicated and interested parties.

I got caught up in something way bigger than I imagined, I think.

Again, AvenueGirl, please forgive me. I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

PLEASE everyone...please know I didn't do this for attention. That is not my MO.

Thanks for letting me put this on your blog, Pru.

Prudentia said...

Nancy, of course you can post this or any other message here.

Please, my friend. It will be fine. I know AvenueGirl has already forgiven you. You were used. Why? I think because whoever did this believed you could be led to a particular conclusion and manipulated to react the way you did. Why the whole charade to start with? That is a really GOOD question. One I'd love to find the answer to and am doing all I can to get to the bottom of with the limited information I have. Was AvenueGirl and her quest the actual target? Possible. She is back on track now, digging, digging. So if that was the goal it backfired. Was it to cause an uprising against Yucky and to distract her from the Zero Carb for pregnant women cause she is fixated on? Again, possible. And again, that will backfire - anyone who thinks something like this will divert Yucky's attention from this important cause doesn't know Yucky very well. Was it to stir up the Ducks because things are quiet and some people just thrive on drama? Could be, but the only worth in that really is cheap entertainment for a day or two as it always passes. But I truly don't believe YOU are anybody's target for anything other than using you as a pawn. Seriously. What's to hate?

Anyway, you can post here. You can email me if you want. You can vent as much as you need to. We ALL need a good rant from time to time. Please don't be afraid to post on the boards, though. This, too, shall pass. In real life not *everyone* we meet likes and appreciates us for the people we are. The ones that matter do, though. Same thing online. You learn to shrug and say "oh well".

Hope this helps just a tiny bit. If you were here I'd give you a hug and a nice glass of wine. Since you're not, I guess I'll fix myself a nice hot cup of coffee and go catch up with my online reading - you do the same, my friend.

Prudentia said...

BTW, nancy. There is something that you said that I want to address:

"Could HD have someone, disguised as a duck, a trusted duck, messing around with us all?"

I believe the answer to that is a loud and resounding YES. That is exactly why this and other seemingly unconnected, insignificant things matter.

We can never forget that Heidi Diaz has a great deal at stake in all of this. She has proven herself to be ruthless and willing to go to great lengths to protect what she believes she deserves. Thankfully she will get what she really deserves in the end. Thanks to the people who work out in the open as well as behind the scenes - even those going where most fear to tread - who are committed to helping her get that.

Yucky said...

Am way behind, but wanted to post this, as it will probably be deleted by Cheri or Dottie over at LCF:

"I was told to get over here and read. Well I'm here, and I'll read but first I'll rant (surprise, surprise). It seems to me that the mystery of the identity of the person who left the comments at Nancy's blog and tried to make Jill look bad can easily be solved by simply comparing the IP address of those comments to the IP addresses of all other comments at all other antiKK blogs. Several of us have a list of Heidi's IP addresses also that can be compared, because from the sound of it, my best guess is that she's the commenter, and hatched this little stunt to get back at Jill.

Anyway so how about checking the IP addresses? At least it would be worth a try. IF all the antiKK bloggers would help Nancy and Jill both by taking the time to do this. And surely they'll be willing to do so.

As for those who think I'm the person who left those comments, you're wrong, and you vastly overestimate my ability to multitask -- I can only obsess about one thing at a time :stars: and lately the one thing I've been obsessed about is the rise of the new Kimmer.

Just like the first Kimmer, this one is assuring expectant Moms that the diet is safe, even though there's absolutely no proof that it is.

Just like the first Kimmer, this one is telling diabetics that on the diet they can stop taking their medication.

And just like the first Kimmer, Jimmy is up to his eyeballs in aiding and abetting, plastering promotional stuff all over the internet and practially wiggling with eagerness to make some money.

I've tried to talk some sense into Jimmy, and tried to argue my case with "Chucker" first by making fun of them and then by being serious, and all that happened was I ended up making a complete fool of myself. As usual!

The only other thing I can think of that might possibly help is to ask everyone to refuse to click on Jimmy or Charles's sites unless they adapt and agree to steadfastly abide by some sort of disclaimer. This needs your input if you're interested, and basically reads: "I have zero medical qualifications and therefore cannot and will not answer any questions about prenatal or neonatal nutrition, nor will I make any comments about the zero carb diet during pregnancy or nursing. The zero carb diet has not been proven safe for unborn babies, newborn babies, or their Moms, so please seek the counsel of a licensed medical doctor specializing in prenatal or neonatal nutrition."

So anyway, that's my rant du jour and now I'll try to catch up on the posts here so I can find out what to rant about next :laugh"

End quote.

What people think of me, that bothers me, sure. I have this ridiculous need for everybody to like me, while at the same time insisting on doing/saying stuff that will annoy the heck out of them. So anyway, as far as this thing going on with NancyElle and Jill, it bothers me that some people think I'm involved, but I'm not, and don't really know what to do about it.

If they want to believe it, well I can stay upset or just get back to doing what I was doing when this mess occurred -- and that is, trying to do something about the Chucker situation. As unfortunate, sad, and unjust as this mess is between Nancy and Jill, can we please focus on what IMO is a much more important mess?

If anybody reading this has some input about the proposed boycott of Jimmy and Chucker's websites unless/until they agree to adopt and abide by a disclaimer, please contact me or participate in the ZeroCarb discussion forum at Your help is needed.

At least, I think it is, as I think this is a situation that warrants getting upset about and trying to do someting about.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm nuts for having such a fit about it.


Anyway hugs to Nancy and Jill, and I hope you guys can get this worked out. I don't really know what to suggest except checking the IP addresses, but Mariasols has informed me that Blogger or wherever your blog is hosted doesn't show IP addresses :( So I truly don't know what to do to help. If there is something then please tell me and I'll try my best.

Mimi / Yucky / Ogg

Yucky said...

Jill says "The best thing I can do is go back to doing what I was doing which was focusing all my efforts on Heidi. I hate to see time wasted on this distraction - but will it really be time wasted if things are found out that make us stronger?"

Well said! IMO you must have dug up something solid recently and don't realize it, but Heidi does and must have panicked. At least that's the only thing that makes sense to me if the person who left the comment at Nancy's blog turns out to be Heidi (or Gary at Heidi's behest).

Jill like I said, you have always been a mystery to me, your personality is interesting and I have never really got a solid sense of who you are -- but one thing has always been abundantly clear -- you're not a coward. You have taken on Heidi and the other affiliate scams with utter fearlessness. No WAY would I or anybody who has even slightly known you during these past many months believe in the slightest that you would leave some anonymous crap at Nancy's blog or anybody else's blog for that matter, especially over something like this. It's just preposterous.

Well anyway, bleh I am so far behind and this is scattered across several fronts, none of which I've really read yet, so I need to go do that.

Hugs to you all and let's not let discouragement sway us. Whoever pulled this stunt will be found out, and hopefully also the reasons will be revealed.

At least, we can hope! Personally there have been way too many loose threads and unsolved bits of mysteries over the past many months and it really gets to me sometimes. I like closure. I want to understand everybody and everything, and I want all mysteries solved.

rant, rant, rant.

Yucky said...

{{{NancyElle}}} I can't imagine that anybody would hate you! Seriously, even though I don't know all the details it seemed clear to me from the first moment I heard about it that you had been set up. The question is of course not just who but why. Why would somebody do this, and try to turn you against Jill? I don't know you well enough to even begin to understand what's involved here, but anyway just wanted to send you a hug and assure you at least as far as I know it was obvious from the get-go that you had been set up.

Hang in there! Hopefully the whole truth will come to light soon.

Yucky said...

Mariasols says "Really, why would Yucky care about an affiliate link?"

Thank you! hmmm well if it was an affiliate link to Kimkins or something horrible I'd care. And if I happened to be in an annoyed mood I might complain about affiliate links at blogs but why pick on NancyElle?

If I understand correctly she's been gone for quite a while, and now that she's back suddenly she's been targeted for some sort of well I don't know what to call it except a setup.

But why? She's not the only antikk blogger who has affiliate links, so why pick on her? Any why try to implicate Jill?

Yucky said...

Am re-reading your post, Prudentia, and trying to focus, get it clear in mind what's going on. I missed this part earlier:

"Now things start to get interesting. A LCF regular, Mayberryfan, posts making it very clear that she believes she knows who the real suspect is. And then – who is this? Morgan? Hi, Morgan. Apparently you, too, believe you know who did this. And Vox."

Truly I can understand Mayberry, Jo, and Morgan being upset with me, as we've certainly had our run-ins.

But Vox? no, that makes no sense. As those of you who read at Fascinated know, I've tried my best to contact Vox since the whole Jo/Mayberry ruckus, because Vox posted something to the effect that I had "flogged" her in my comments about the TOS. When I realized what she was talking about I just felt awful and wanted to assure her that my comments about the TOS were NOT aimed at her.

You guys know how I am. I rant and rave with the knowledge that other people are going to be reading -- and in the case of the TOS is was my hope that if I worded it "tough enough" there would be no misunderstandings about what sort of place Fascinated is, and what the members could expect there.

Jo and Mayberry as we know, read and understood the TOS, and that's obvious from their posts about privacy/secrecy there, but then they later pretended to not know -- and that was what the fight was about, or at least that's what was at the foundation of it.

And if that's what Jo and Mayberry are using to justify playing a mean prank on Nancy and Jill, that's just pathetic.

If you've got a problem with me, don't pick on anybody else, including Jill and Nancy, who I barely even know, and they have nothing to do with my rant about the Jimmy/Charles situation nor with anything else.

The only thing they have in common is they are both members at Fascinated --just as Jo, Mayberry, and Vox are still.

Vox, if you're reading this, I am truly sorry my comments about the TOS hurt your feelings, but they were NOT directed at you nor were they meant to "flog" you or anybody else.

v0x said...

I believe it was Mom2Eli that singled out Mimi and Jill. Right?


Prudentia said...

Hey v0x, Yucky has been trying to get ahold of you for a really long time now. Are you intentionally avoiding her apology?

Prudentia said...

Hey v0x, Yucky has been trying to get ahold of you for a really long time now. Are you intentionally avoiding her apology?

mariasol said...

v0x - The way I remember it, Mayberryfan was the one that stated that Mimi had anything to do with this. Based on what, I have no idea. Nancy singled out Jill, but she has fully explained her reasoning and has apologized for being mistaken.