Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Why Do YOU Support Heidi Diaz, aka Kimmer?

Well, Heidi – how you continue to garner support among any group of people is beyond my comprehension. As an ardent student of human nature I would really like to understand. So, I’m offering you an opportunity. I’m quite sure that your attorney has repeatedly told you not to make any statements which can be used against you, so never in a million years would I expect you, personally, to enter into any sort of dialog about this. What I am proposing, then, is to provide an opportunity for those who follow you to share their why. Not why Kimkins, the diet. Rather why, Kimmer, the diet leader. Not how you found Kimkins, but why, in spite of all that has come out, are you willing to trust Heidi Diaz? What inside you outweighs the evidence that proves she is a master at deceiving people?

I’d like to hear from those who have been following her for awhile, and those who are brand new.

Why, after everything that has been exposed about Kimmer would you continue to follow and support her?

Why, after everything that has been exposed about Kimmer would you decide to join her website and follow her eating plan anyway?

People like erinrn, grantoangels, jnlisfatnomore, tasjon, Lasttime4me, jessone, Singinglass, GonnaBeHot, catesbit, dakotastyle, caymansky, mzpretty, DramaQueen, farrah, champ … the list goes on.

Is it because you don’t believe what has been exposed? Is it because you feel sorry for her? Is it because you can relate to her?

Here is your opportunity to defend Heidi Diaz to the world. Anyone willing to defend her out here – outside of the safety of Kimkins? Post as yourself or make up another name – it doesn’t matter.

Your words won’t be tampered with and you can always reference back to this blog if you believe you are being misquoted.

I’m simply asking that you help us understand your point of view.

41 comments:

OhYeahBabe said...

It's a good question, Prudentia. I really hope you get answers that are more meaningful than "I made good friends there, and I'm losing weight, so I don't care who she is!" Good enough reason to promote a fraud?

HoneyBee said...

Interesting topic Prudentia and I would be curious as to what the reasoning is for still believing in Heidi Diaz.

Really.

I will be surprised though if you get many members to respond because it is likely that most are just sock-puppets that Heidi has invented to keep up appearances.
Who all posted yesterday during the deposition? That should help shorten the member list.

I would like to understand what has helped those that do stay, decide that was best for them.

Medusa said...

Great question, Prudentia.

I truly hope KKers respond.

My blog: Medusa

Kat said...

I think a lot just don't care as long as they are losing the weight. They stay in their challange threads and never venture out to see what is really going on. Oblivious to the real world and the Kimmer saga.

For those that do venture out and those that do know...I too would like to know what their reasonings are.

Anonymous said...

Well shoot. I tried.:( ugh. tired to confirm that she was working with a person through the mediation department then all of a sudden she poofed. Ugh. I hope none of the nosey ducks get to nosey.
lol I just posted my phone number for all the world to see:((

CrispyBread said...

I support Kimkins.....I joined in June 2007 and lost an amazing amount of weight (120 lbs in 6 months) following kimkins original plan. I ate veggies, fat (to make the recipe work), yogurt *as a snack* and protein at every meal. My calories were NEVER under 1000 calories. People who have failed and have taken the diet to the extreme (eating less than 1000 calories a day...duh? commom sense?) are the main anti-kimkims supporters.

I have posted a few comments on other blogs....Deni...Christin and Becky's to name a few. The comments were altered or never posted. Perhaps that is why you will not get many supporters posting here. Only comments that supported their views are listed in their comment sections.

Anyway, I kept a food diary and showed my doctor after losing 35 lbs the first month and he approved. I am now at goal and kept it off for 5 months......have gone to the doctor every 3 months and I no longer take high blood pressure meds, cholesteral lowering meds, or borderline diabetic meds. All tests are normal. I walk everyday and do strength training three times a week. All this because of the Kimkins site.

Thank you Kimmer....I have tried to lose weight for over 30 years and you have saved my life. If I did not lose this weight I would probably be six feet under today.

It does not matter to me who Kimmer is, How she looks, how many millions she made or if she scammed you! I spent $60 and finally found a way to lose my excess baggage...that is all the matters to me. I would have spent hundreds more on high carb snacks and foods by now if I had not found Kimkins.

All anti-kimkims bloggers should really be concentrating all their anger toward the U.S. Government for publishing a false food pyramid decades ago. They are the real scammers not Kimmer. We believed the government and ate low fat with high carbs and look at where the Nation is now......OVERWEIGHT. Millions of peoples lives have been ruined because of our government. Go help them and not a few hundred others who are Adults and choosing to eat low-carb with Kimmers help. That is their choice not yours.

Wishing all the anti-kimmer/kimkins, LCF and bloggers success with their weight loss goals no matter what weight loss plan you are following.

Anonymous said...

I didnt comment on this matter did i.lololl Too funny.

Prudentia said...

Crispybread, I thank you for being brave enough to post on this matter. I have not altered your comments in any way, nor will I.

CrispyBread said...

Prudentia

Thank you.....nothing looks altered as of today....I appreciate you for posting my comments.

OhYeahBabe said...

Congratulations, Crispybread! Best wishes for future health.

I would argue that if you didn't take it to extreme, then you didn't do Kimkins as written and certainly not as further advised by the well trained admins & the site owner, but I guess we'll just disagree on that point. IMO, Kimkins IS extreme dieting.

OhYeahBabe said...

Crispybread, I forgot to ask you a couple of questions. Do you care that you are lending credibility to a fraud? Do you care that you are supporting a diet that has harmed many people who don't happen to be as smart as you are about tweaking it to be healthy? Are you aware that you could have achieved the same success at sites that wouldn't have lured you in with lies, or even taken a dime of your money?

I do wish you well, really I do. I'm just puzzled why the ethics and legalities don't matter to you?

Prudentia said...

As a reminder, I will be publishing all comments as is. I am genuinely interested in hearing what motivates those who continue to support Heidi Diaz. Please don't scare them off ...

OhYeahBabe said...

Prudentia, if you are referring to my comments then you have my permission to delete them. I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just trying to understand. I don't wish to undermine your efforts, though.
OYB
My blog: Kimorexia

Prudentia said...

Wouldn't dream of it, OYB! I hope a real dialog gets going here. Just a gentle reminder that they are gun shy and be easy .... Hopefully this will be one of those rare chances we get to actually hear the hearts of those "inside". I'm as baffled as you are, believe me.

CrisyBread said...

ohyeahbabe.....Thank You.

I just followed the Kimkins Plan as written.....eat protein until you are satisfied but not stuffed, eat veggies from List 1 of Veggies (4-6 cups a day), added fat to make the recipe work (I used EVOO and some cheese), counted carbs so I did not exceed 20, snacked on Dannon Carb Control Yogurt and string cheese. I also had many a Whey protein Shakes using many of the recipes on their site. This is not extreme dieting.

I did not acheive the same results by being a member of the South Beach Diet, Weight Watchers Online and their weekly meetings, and E-diets.com. I lost but did not keep it off. I always regained the same weight. I was skeptical at first with Kimkins because I was always unsuccessful with low carb dieting...like Stillman and Atkins.....I never lost but gained each time I was on the diet.

You say I am lending credibility to a fraud but you do not comment on the bigger fraud of the original US Food Pyramid I mentioned. IMO, that is fraud on a much larger scale. Kimmer apologized, did the US Gov Apologize?

It is not the diet that made some people sick...it was their own fault for taking the diet to the extreme. I am sad that they say they got sick because of Kimkins. If they did not check with their doctor either before starting the diet or shortly after losing some weight, and discussing with their doctor, it is their own fault for getting sick. I remember reading an article in the 70's about the same symptoms of losing hair, heart failure etc with the original Weight Watchers Diet. It turned out they were starving themselves.

I have to run to pick up the kids. I may be back later.

Anonymous said...

I have been on Kimkins since the first of the year 2008. I heard about it on the Fox Morning Show and did not think the women that say they were sick were credible.
Nor was the nutritionist. I read a lot of the controversay online and visited the site and studied what I could without joining.

I decided to join and I have lost 42 lbs. This is the first time I am successful on any diet. I usually lose 10 lbs then blow it. I need to lose 160 more lbs and I think I can do it. I do not want the weight loss surgery because one of my friends died from it because she could not eat after the surgery without getting sick.

Prudentia said...

I'd prefer we stick to the topic of why people support Heidi Diaz. I'd be happy to write a blog post another time about the US Food Pyramid, but please, folks, let's not drag that issue into this discussion.

Thanks, everyone, for participating.

2BIG said...

crispybread I have a few questions about your protiens?

do you infact use lean proteins like the plan says and are defined as having less then 3 grams of fat per ounce of food or do you just eat what you consider to be a protein food?

and does anybody know when Kimkins changed the rules to allow 4-6 cups of list one veggies? cause that wasn't the plan when TippyToes and I discussed it back in Nov.

avenuegirl said...

crispybread said:

"It is not the diet that made some people sick...it was their own fault for taking the diet to the extreme"

What you don't realize CB is that Heidi gave out "special mentoring" specifically telling people to go lower and lower and lower, and how weak they were, etc.

"choosing to eat low-carb with Kimmers help."

You don't need Kimmer's help to eat low carb. Low carb was around long before Kimmer. And forums to help you are free, and don't ban you for discussing the safety of different plans and how to best use them.

"It does not matter to me who Kimmer is, How she looks, how many millions she made or if she scammed you! I spent $60 and finally found a way to lose my excess baggage...that is all the matters to me."

Wow. I too initially thought "fat kimmie made me skinny" and then I realized the bigger picture. I hope you will too one day.

kimkinite101 said...

Interesting post and interesting how you worded your questions. We have something in common – I am also an “ardent student of human nature” – and this whole saga has taught me some things about it I’m not sure I wanted to learn.

It's not a matter of supporting or trusting Kimmer or anyone else - it's a matter of choosing a diet and diet website, deciding that both are effective and sticking with it. Just because some "duck" decided that anyone following the Kimkins WOE is eating a "starvation" diet doesn't make it so. Crispybread never did and neither did I and there are many more like us. And I followed the guidelines, as written.

Yes, I believe Kimmer lied about the extent of her weight loss if any and about keeping it off and that she used about 34 false before and after stories and photos. To me it's not that big a deal. I didn't join on the basis of anybody's testimonial. I joined for a diet that I liked and a private forum dedicated to that one diet. The false material has now been removed and there are plenty of real success stories (including my own though I don't intend to share it publicly).

I understand the hurt and sense of betrayal of people who interacted a lot with Kimmer on a personal level and may even have considered her a friend. I even understand that such people could experience anger and bitterness for quite a while. Those people certainly have my sympathy even if some of them have let their emotions lead them into becoming part of a vendetta.

But then there's the mob. Kimmer has been labeled a sociopath, a narcissist, a psychopath, a criminal, and a bad mother and has been accused of everything from identity theft to child pornography. Some of what has been said is dangerously close to defamatory. And on the basis of what proof?

And then there's the opinion, speculation, gossip and outright lies, repeated endlessly and presented as “fact” on so many things. And not a lick of actual proof on anything.

There are a number of “experts” apparently on physical characteristics and photoshop to say nothing of all manner of medical and nutritional matters. And law, of course. Though it seems to have more or less escaped everybody’s notice that the new complaint no longer contains any claims related to injuries to health.

As to the medical and nutritional stuff, am I to believe that hair doesn’t fall out after losing weight on Atkins (there’s a couple threads on LCF full of people who can prove otherwise, including a couple of regular FWK posters). Should I believe that someone who admittedly has tried “hundreds” of diets and had gastric stapling has been otherwise well all along until trying Kimkins and then that one diet “broke” her metabolism? And should I accept that only people who do Kimkins will regain their weight afterwards and that could never happen to someone on Atkins? Maybe I’ll ask the FWK poster who purportedly lost over 100lbs on Atkins and is now trying to do it all over again with a little extra besides. Gallbladders apparently blow up after a week on Kimkins and thyroids go bust too and everybody develops an eating disorder. Give me a break. And today, a woman on Kimkins who suffered Congestive Heart Failure was doomed to death by FWK posters and a couple bloggers. Never mind that that nobody knows her, her medical history, or how closely she is being followed by her doctor.

Then there’s the vile and vicious insults to people even remotely associated with Kimmer. The treatment of Tippy was especially appalling, particularly the blog comments made under cover of an extra layer of anonymity. And also, what, pray tell, would Tippy need immunity from by John Tiedt – there is no cause of action to sue her in the first place – she didn’t post any false pictures or a false weight so where was the consumer fraud from her?.

On the FWK thread and in the anti-Kimkins blogs, past and present, there’s been so much manipulating, misleading, attacking and lying going on I couldn’t even begin to tell the good guys from the bad. Well except maybe Jimmy Moore. Did anyone ever notice that his apology was made one day after the PI took the first video of Kimmer? Coincidence or a head’s up? And how come those photos didn’t surface till September if the PI had footage in July? And did anyone ever notice that comments to Kimkins Exposed posted with a time stamp not in any US time zone?

Too many inconsistencies and mysteries. Too many zealots. And too much self-righteous self congratulations going on. And all in the name of “caring” and “truth”. Real caring and real truth requires honesty. Nobody is helping or educating anyone if they cannot provide honest evaluations of both sides of an issue.

Frankly, if I was not already a Kimkins member and had to choose Kimmer or certain anti-Kimkins bloggers or posters, Kimmer would win hands down.

So I may as well just stay with Kimkins. Plus, I like the site, I like what I’m doing for a WOE, and there’s still lots of nice folks to talk to. And there’s a lot less drama going on unless some ducks stop by for a “carpet-bombing” and some post-theft.

The very last thing is the lawsuit. I can associate some of the Plaintiffs with certain posters and I can as well identify some of the group that filed the Affidavits in support of the Notice of Attachment. As a member of the potential class I can tell you that I do not accept that the named Plaintiffs will “fairly and adequately” protect my interests and I will be telling that to Heidi’s attorney if this case even gets to a certification hearing.

For instance the only thing I have in common with Katinsac, who is a named Plaintiff, is that we both paid money to join Kimkins. Nothing else. I eat well, I haven’t been ill in any way and I wasn’t banned, nor were most other people. In fact, despite claims by some people of Kimkins members being “banned by the hundreds”, I’d be surprised if even 100 people were banned in total. That’s about ¼ of 1% of the potential class. Deprivation of lifetime membership seems to be the only claim of harm from the fraud left now that the personal injuries from the diet are gone. Interesting.

Sorry this is so long but I’ve been quiet a long time. Thanks for the opportunity to speak freely.

Prudentia said...

You're welcome, Kimkinite101. I am wondering, though, how you seperate the diet from the founder of the diet. The diet was a fabrication of her own mind - not tested, no one had successfully lost weight and kept it off, there was no data to show that it was healthy long term. Just made it up. I'm perplexed how that can not matter.

kimkinite101 said...

Prudentia - thanks again! It's actually quite simple to separate the diet from Kimmer since it is basically no different than many other low carb diets that have been published. Think Atkins with leaner meats or Protein Power with less dairy. When I first saw Kimkins I already had modified my diet on my own to one that matched Kimkins very well. Her food lists worked with what I had already been doing and I wanted the community.

There are a lot of diets published by doctors and non-doctors and probably even fake doctors that are no better or no worse than Kimkins. I think I can figure it out.

And to the person who wants to apply inspection standards for meats with fat removed (i.e. lean ground beef) I got news - it doesn't work with things like chicken that only has skin off or leaner cuts of steak or whatever whole meat one might be eating as protein. They have the fat they have and that rule doesn't apply.

And for the big picture person there are many people on the Kimkins site and everywhere else who are quite capable of seeing the big picture. And for me and many others the big picture is that people are responsible for their own choices in eating, good or bad.

Thanks again.

Prudentia said...

Anonymous, I have rejected your comment because you have used the proper name of one of the posters here, and I will not allow that from either side. If you want to defend Kimmer, please do so. You are even welcome to resubmit your comment without naming the poster, and I will publish it. I will not alter it for you, however, as I made a commitment not to alter any of these comments.

CrispyBread said...

2Big said~

"do you infact use lean proteins like the plan says and are defined as having less then 3 grams of fat per ounce of food or do you just eat what you consider to be a protein food?"

I ate the proteins from the Kimkins Food list. Not all the proteins listed are less than 3 grams of fat per ouunce. I do not know where you came up with that. I checked the site and it does not say anything about less than 3 grams per ounce.

http://crispybread.blogspot.com/

Prudentia said...

Kimkinite101, it sounds like your loyalty is to the community, not to either the diet or to Kimmer.

Why not avail yourself of the numerous free resources? I'm not talking about now, but rather in the beginning - why did you choose to plunk out your cash back then? You say you did not join because of Heidi's claims or of any of the other claims of success. I'm not understanding what you found there that you could not find elsewhere as a free resource.

Another question I have, going back to your first comments, it appears that you believe Heidi Diaz has been unfairly characterized as things such as a bad mother,a criminal and labels you listed. Do you not believe that Heidi Diaz committed fraud? Do you not believe that she misrepresented that she had foster children and raised money on their behalf? Do you not believe the other charges that people have made against her? If you do not, what evidence would it take to convince you?

Or does any of that matter? Would you join Kimkins today, knowing what you do, if you were not already established in that community? If not, why not?

I do understand not wanting to abandon people who have come to mean a lot to you. Why not gather those you hold dearly and continue you community in a place that isn't tainted as Kimkins is?

Thank you, Kimkinite101, for take the time to engage in this conversation.

Prudentia said...

Crispybread, I visited your blog, and I must say, I just can't make the math work. Based on what you have said your diet consisted of, as posted in an earlier comment here, I can't for the life of me get that to add up to 1500 calories a day. Would you mind posting a menu that does that and stays within the guidelines you have stated (as well as the guidelines stated on the Kimkins website)?

Know the Facts said...

Sorry that was a typo and it should be over 1000 calories a day usually 987-1091 and I corrected it on my blog. If I ate 1500 I would never have lost.......it makes such a difference. Thanks for catching my error. I do not visit the blog often.

Kat said...

I can understand how all of these people stay with Heidi's diet plan NOW...it is not what she had in June 2007 and not what she and her Admin's pushed at that time.

What I cannot understand is where all these people think that the lawsuit was started for ill health. It was never about the health, it was ALWAYS about the fraud. Sounds like Heidi is passing on her and her lawyer's thoughts...they have always played the health card. Get a clue.

I did not go into the diet hating Heidi either. I loved the diet and followed it as instructed and written. However, that part about "just enough fat" was "explained" differently then as it is now. The diet written now is not as bad, nor is the Plan Behind The Plan advice given, or course, that is due to Heidi and TT cleaning up their act for the lawsuit.

I asked an innocent question on one of the threads while there and got repremanded for it. OK, so move the thread. No biggy...don't ask, don't tell. I still believed in the plan and supported it until I personally started having health problems. That is when I did my homework. I'm just sorry I didn't do it sooner.

After seeing all the lies Heidi said and all the false success stories, etc., I was shocked to see that someone as decetful as Heidi could take advantage of people just trying to believe and follow a diet plan that looks on paper like a safe plan. I know better now.

You nea sayers may enjoy the commaraderay now and the quick weight loss, etc., but the problems from her original plan do not show up right away. I pray every day for those of you who are not tweeking her plan (but still calling it her plan), as those of you who follow it to a T will develope problems later. Just remember when you do to think about what has been said in these threads/blogs, etc., and don't write it off as some other cause. Tell you Doctor's so they can help and treat you for what really caused your problems.

Prudentia...sorry this was a book. lol

OhYeahBabe said...

Crispybread, you are an affiliate for Kimkins?

2BIG4MYSIZE said...

Both Kimkinite 101 and cripybread/knowthetruth say the 3 grams of fat per ounce of doos are not there but actually unless Kimmer has again scrubbed the site it does say that. You just don't understand food terminology as I addressed in the topic http://2big4mysize.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/when-is-kimkins-not-kimkins/ on my blog which you are both welcome to continue discussing there should you chose.
Every body open your window into the kimkins.con site and follow along.

See that food list? it says Lean proteins. Kimmer assumed (and i guess wrongly since neither of you nor DAND who commented on my blog knew what that means) her followers would know the definition of lean protein is no more then 3 grams of fat per ounce of food so 4 ounces of lean chicken can have no more then 12 grams of fat in it.

the sample breakfast of eggs (fixed according to the kimkins listed way of 2 whites and one whole egg) with the lean ham will have 11 grams of fat total.

that was why I ask your crispybread/ know the truth if you were actually following the plan as written cause so far I have yet to see a single healthy individual who actually followed the plan as written and lost weight and kept it off. Seens neither of you followed kimkins either.

kimkinite101 said...

“Why not avail yourself of the numerous free resources? I'm not talking about now, but rather in the beginning - why did you choose to plunk out your cash back then?”

Who says I don't use free resources? I did and I do. But free on the internet often equates to public and I had and have no intention of sharing too much of myself in public. I chose to join Kimkins for a) privacy and b) dedication to one type of plan.

“Why not gather those you hold dearly and continue you community in a place that isn't tainted as Kimkins is?

My loyalty, as selfish as it may sound, is to me and me alone. I enjoy the site and the people I interact with there. But I have no emotional investment in the site - if it goes down, life will go on and so will my WOE. I have a busy and full real life in which I have dieted long before the internet existed and will no doubt diet again if it is ever gone. If there is someone on the Kimkins site I might want to include in that real life, I already do.

Another community? I belong to a couple and they’re tainted too in one way or another. And again, I try to protect my privacy. Particularly now, after witnessing the dissemination and propagation of misinformation and the embracing of holier-than-thou attitudes that spread like wildfire through various forums and other resources on the internet. And the result? people re-named their WOE and went underground to avoid conflict. A fine example of what happens when basic human rights and freedoms are trampled. Good thing it's not that important an issue in the grand scheme of life. A great lesson for your study of human behaviour though, Prudentia.

“Do you not believe that Heidi Diaz committed fraud? Do you not believe that she misrepresented that she had foster children and raised money on their behalf? Do you not believe the other charges that people have made against her? If you do not, what evidence would it take to convince you?”

Did Heidi commit fraud? Well, yes she did - the false statements about her weight loss and the fake success stories are even a defined fraud in various legislation. As are the over-the-top statements about diet (no faster diet, none & that sort of thing). These things are fraud, but in the real world it is civil fraud and it's being dealt with appropriately with the lawsuit. Will the lawsuit fly? Remains to be seen - depends on whether the judge believes enough people relied on the false statements and wouldn't have paid to join Kimkins except for those statements. The diet itself is not particularly relevant to the lawsuit anymore, since there are no longer any claims for damages from health issues. Does this type of fraud make her the most evil criminal on the planet? Hardly. She's not even remotely the worst of this type of fraud. Not that I approve of Heidi's type of marketing and what she did, but she didn't make me spend my $60.00 - she doesn't have the power. That was my decision and I have no regrets.

Regarding the Foster children, I do not know – you may recall there was conflicting information about when she had foster children. With regards to that and to other "charges" against her, as far as I know there are none, not even of a quasi-official nature. Allegations by individuals are not official. Are there other civil lawsuits? Has any agency laid criminal charges or otherwise brought her to task, fined her, slapped her fingers, whatever? Lord knows she's been reported everywhere. If with all the complaints made to the various agencies there are no known repercussions it would appear there is not sufficient evidence or proof enough for them to take any action. If the authorities see nothing to act against why would I be convinced? When and if she’s charged or sanctioned for something by someone with authority then I’ll be convinced. Or if she confesses, I’ll be convinced. Also, some of the things that people have raised do not even have the remotest connection to the diet at all, let alone the Kimkins website, so I'd have to say they are none of my business anyhow.

“Would you join Kimkins today, knowing what you do”

Actually, yes I would. For the same reasons I did before and for the additional reason that I'd "support" the site because I do really feel that much of the treatment Heidi and her members have received at the hands of some of the posters/bloggers has been unreasonable, unfair and/or just plain mean. Yes, she told lies. Yes, she tried to lie her way out of the lies. If I'd been her I'd simply have accepted the jig was up, removed anything false, admitted I was fat and otherwise stood my ground. She was wrong. But the ongoing treatment of her and her site and her members about looks and weight and many other things is ridiculous and unnecessary and just as wrong. Guess I'm prone to back the underdog if I perceive that the treatment of the underdog is way, way beyond what was ever warranted.

Prudentia, I’d really like to thank you for your considerate manner. You seem like you genuinely want to know what I and other Kimkins members might think. We don’t have to agree to have a reasonable discussion and I’m happy to answer any other questions you might have as best I can.

kimkinite101 said...

“What I cannot understand is where all these people think that the lawsuit was started for ill health. It was never about the health, it was ALWAYS about the fraud. Sounds like Heidi is passing on her and her lawyer's thoughts...they have always played the health card. Get a clue.”

Kat, I get my clues by reading the legal documents. I suggest you compare the original complaint with the amended one and maybe you’ll get the same clues. While it’s true that the original complaint said it wasn’t making a claim for damages for health injuries, it nonetheless was attempting to use them to get bigger damages for fraud.

Also, considering all the comments people have made and are still making about health issues, including you in your comment here, I can’t imagine why I’d think people are making a big deal about ill health.

“that part about "just enough fat" was "explained" differently then as it is now. The diet written now is not as bad”

I also joined Kimkins in June and “just enough fat” was written in the guidelines the same then as it is now. Some of the advice on the forums may be different but the plans for Kimkins and K/E were still written the same as they were in June last time I checked. It wasn’t bad then and it’s not bad now. Of course I don’t try to follow it at 100 to 300 calories a day as some people claim to have done.

“problems from her original plan do not show up right away. I pray every day for those of you who are not tweeking her plan (but still calling it her plan), as those of you who follow it to a T will develope problems later”

It’s nice that you care; however, you needn’t worry about me. I’m pretty certain I’ll continue to do just fine and will not be developing any problems attributable to my WOE. Though the Kimkins diet doesn’t actually need any tweaking to be followed in a sensible manner, if I do see a reason to tweak it I’ll still call it Kimkins if I want to. I’m sure Kimmer won’t mind.

kimkinite101 said...

“You just don't understand food terminology”

Really? Actually 2Big, I’m pretty sure I do, though I have to admit you are very creative with your argument.

“See that food list? it says Lean proteins. Kimmer assumed (and i guess wrongly since neither of you nor DAND who commented on my blog knew what that means) her followers would know the definition of lean protein is no more then 3 grams of fat per ounce of food so 4 ounces of lean chicken can have no more then 12 grams of fat in it.”

As I said before – standards for labeling and inspection aren’t really applicable. However, since you insist, I can verify that most of my proteins do qualify as lean using your definition. No probs with the pork loin, the beef sirloin, the halibut or the chicken breast – all of them fit in your definition so I guess I must be using lean protein. Salmon is a gram high and the eggs, but I don’t suppose a gram or two of fat here or there in my protein will throw me off too much so I’ll make do.

“if you were actually following the plan as written cause so far I have yet to see a single healthy individual who actually followed the plan as written and lost weight and kept it off. Seens neither of you followed kimkins either.”

Well, I’m currently single and I’m healthy and I’m following Kimkins as written. I’m not quite done losing yet but I figure to call goal sometime in March. How long do you want for “kept it off”? Shall I look you up say March 31/09?

Prudentia said...

Kimkinite101, thank you, again, for your replies. Please know that I have not forgotten you. Rather, I am working out what exactly I'd like to ask, as you've been generous enough to agree to continue this dialog. Hopefully yet tonight, but if not, over the weekend for sure.

2BIG said...

kimkinete101 again it is not my definition it is Kimmers. She says LEAN PROTIEN

lean protein is and has been defined as 3 grams of fat per ounce of food. the eggs 2 whites mixed with 1 yolk are right from Kimmers lists not mine.

Would you please list the sources in your diet of the basic EFAs and the amounts you are consuming? following the plan as written using those listed lean protein sources and vegetable restrictions puts a persons intake below minimal amounts needed for health. I'd be curious how you can be following her plan and still meet those needs.

kimkinite101 said...

Well, 2big – I still don’t know why you are trying to use labeling and inspection regulations for allowing “lean” claims on food labels to be a definition of what people generally consider to be lean meats for an eating plan. Virtually all low-fat diets and many low-carb diets recommend lean cuts of meat and give advice like removing visible fat, removing skin from chicken etc and I have yet to see any that use the definition you provided. I even checked in a few books – Hamptons Diet, Glycemic Load, South Beach, Fat Flush and Protein Power and Protein Power Life Plan and none of them seem to reference that no more than 3g per oz definition (or any other definition by grams of fat for that matter). Guess they all have a problem with food terminology too. Even the USDA food pyramid which we all know recommends low fat and high carb says this “Choose lean or low-fat meat and poultry. If higher fat choices are made, such as regular ground beef (75 to 80% lean) or chicken with skin, the fat in the product counts as part of the discretionary calorie allowance.” I don’t see anything about the grams of fat, do you? And the USDA and FDA are the ones that control the labeling definitions for “lean” and “extra lean”. And as near as I can tell the current definition for “lean” for the labels is actually “a serving of meat, poultry, seafood, or game meat that contains fewer than 10 grams of fat, fewer than 4 grams of saturated fat, and fewer than 95 milligrams of cholesterol per 100 grams.” This doesn’t quite correspond to your numbers so perhaps you’d like to give me the link to the definition you gave.

Not that it matters anyway, we both know you have chosen to interpret the Kimkins guidelines in a certain manner and do not intend to deviate from that as it won’t suit your agenda. You can refuse to acknowledge that some people have a different interpretation than yours for as long as you like – just makes you look unreasonable.

As for my EFA’s, you may have noticed in an earlier comment that I mentioned halibut and salmon – those are fish – coldwater fish in fact, and are great sources of EFA’s. I also eat other fish, use a very good mono-unsaturated oil for cooking, salads and smoothies and use 3-6-9 supplements. So with all that along with some good veggies, my weekly steak, tasty chicken breasts, and other good food – I think I’m covered.

You shouldn’t assume that people know nothing about nutrition just because they are Kimkins members.

And by the way, what do YOU eat?

Prudentia said...

Well, Kimkinite101, in my original blog post I asked what seemed to me to be a simple question. Why would anyone continue to support Heidi Diaz in the face of overwhelming evidence that she is a fraud. After reading and re-reading your comments here, I must admit that I am no closer to understanding than I was when I originally posted the question. Perhaps I simply am more aware of the evidence against her, both what has been made public and what has not. I doubt that you are operating from a position of ignorance, however. Make no mistake, Heidi Diaz's day of reckoning is approaching. Just because you have not seen any agency action yet doesn't mean they are not interested. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they still turn. I sincerely hope that you and other well meaning folks don't find yourselves being thrown under the bus by the one you are so valiantly standing beside. She is an expert at deception and will not think twice about turning her back on you, particularly as she attempts to save her own hide.

Good luck to you as you near your weight loss goal. Your comments regarding having been dieting and continuing to do so long after Kimkins folds lead me to believe even you realize that maintaining a weight loss in such a fashion is unlikely. I do hope you find you way.

Thank you, Kimkinite101 for taking the time to share your point of view.

Crispybread, it is unfortunate that you simply refuse to believe the evidence that exists that Heidi Diaz did indeed lay out dangerous dietary guidelines in her plans. Thankfully those comments are well documented. One day you will consider yourself lucky that you weren't one of her "chosen ones".

kimkinite101 said...

Hi, Prudentia

In commenting to your blog I had no expectations of having an impact on the opinions of anyone deeply involved in being anti-Kimkins. And I can assure you that people who behave like many of the "ducks" have zero chance of impacting mine.

I'm not too worried about being "thrown under a bus" - I have nothing to gain or lose except access to a web-site.

Justice may not provide what you expect it to. Only time will tell that tale. If you're still around when all is said and done I'll check with you then.

As for maintaining, I may gain weight in the future or I may not. If I do it will be because I once again returned to my old ways - the same as happened after a big loss on Atkins.

Again, I appreciate your attitude and approach and I wish you all the best. I'll keep an eye on your blog and I hope we can talk again sometime.

2BIG said...

Thank you for the information on your modified kimkins kimkinete101. I hope kimmer has removed her if you tweak it it isn't kimkins cause salmon isn't a lean fish.

"
“lean” for the labels is actually “a serving of meat, poultry, seafood, or game meat that contains fewer than 10 grams of fat, fewer than 4 grams of saturated fat, and fewer than 95 milligrams of cholesterol per 100 grams.” This doesn’t quite correspond to your numbers so perhaps you’d like to give me the link to the definition you gave."

See this is what i was talking about the kimkin diet eaters don't follow the kimkins plan cause they do not understand the plan as kimmer wrote it. Kimkinete101 actually that does match the definition I used. If you extrapolate the numbers 3 grams for 1 ounce of food would be 12 grams for a standard 4 ounce serving.

Notice in your quoted info it says if you use a higher fat meat those cals count in discretionary cals. Kimmer doesn't have that option now does she.

See when a diet says eat lean proteins it means for the followers to buy lean proteins and eat lean proteins and when the followers don't know what lean protein is for most plans they have weight loss issues but for kimkins it saves their life!

Oh and using a good monosaturated oil does nothing for your EFAs unless you are using large amounts like 5 tablespoons of EEOV since all EFAs are polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Glad to see you are using a good quality supplement which unfortunatly the kimkins plan does not recommned nor even address the need for cause according to Kimmer when you are overweight you have no need for fats in your diet cause you are carrying all the fat you will need in your body stores. Too bad kimmer didn't do a little more research when she was creating her plan or even adjust it after the fact to include the info nutrtionist have made availible free of charge to many kimkinettes who have ask on LCF such as the info Controlledcarb posted in the building a healthy WOE if possible topic.

Oh and I hope you are eating a lot of that halibut each day cause only a small portion of the total fats in them is the healthy omega 3s and acutally at 0.3grams per serving for 3 ounces you'd need to eat 12 ounces just to get the minimum amount of Omega3s. Are you sure you read that right about Halibut being a good source? Remeber not all polyunsaturated fats are the EFAs we all need daily.

Prudentia said...

Kimkinite101, I hope we do have many more chances to chat. Feel free to comment on anything that I write. I so appreciate the way you have fielded questions and your civility.

I will count on comparing notes at the end of this ride! Please know, though, that I am as anti-Kimkins as I can be. I believe whole heartedly that the way Heidi Diaz wrote the plan, especially the way she herself has interpreted her plan to others, is faulty at it's core. I also believe she has tempered her diligence in expressing that interpretation as a direct result of the legal action being taken against her. I fully believe that not only is heidi Diaz a fraud in ways that have been, to date, exposed, but in ways that most still have no ideas of. Please also know that I will continue to do all in my power to further the cause of justice in this matter. All of that, though, in no way diminishes the well wishes I have for those who participate in her fora, however misguided I may believe them to be.

Anonymous said...

kimkinite you said immer has been labeled a sociopath, a narcissist, a psychopath, a criminal, and a bad mother and has been accused of everything from identity theft to child pornography. Some of what has been said is dangerously close to defamatory. end quote

It's not defamatory for the simple reason that its true. All of it.